Vitalik, 42 Days in Chiang Mai

Original Author: Zhou Zhou, Foresight News

Chiang Mai, an internationalized large village, where Vitalik recently stayed for about 42 days. For someone who flies an average of 55 times a year, almost "moving" every week, staying in one city for so long is quite unusual.

During these 42 days, a bottom-up, decentralized, and increasingly popular social experiment took place, with over 1000 blockchain practitioners from around the world gradually arriving in Chiang Mai, spontaneously forming 8 or 9 cities and villages (Pop-Up City). They aimed to establish a "Web3 City" that would last for six weeks.

Vitalik called this place Zuzalu 2.0. Since he initiated the first "flash city experiment" Zuzalu in the Republic of Montenegro in 2023, he has been looking for ways to continue this social experiment. "Watching the development of Zuzalu 2.0, I feel like I am seeing how my own son is growing step by step," Vitalik told me.

The crypto industry often wears two distinctly different faces: one face is filled with various high-risk financial transactions and activities, while the other face is perpetually inhabited by some idealists attempting to build a new "utopia" based on blockchain decentralization and incentive mechanisms.

"During these six weeks, there were 1606 events held, including meditation, hiking, Thai boxing, sound healing, Web3 lectures, geek boot camps... The most populous village, Edge City, had nearly 500 people," said Jiang, co-founder of Social Layer. Here, builders initiated activities using Social Layer rather than the more standardized and commercialized Luma. Beyond Edge City, there were other "villages," such as the "Invisible Garden" core to global ZK developers and the "Mountain Sea House" core to Chinese Web3 practitioners, each with over 100 people. This continuity allowed experiments like Zuzalu to be passed down.

The significant increase in Web3 talent density and breadth has turned this place into a temporary "playground" for Vitalik's ideas. Vitalik would visit two or three "Web3 villages" almost every day, chatting with villagers. As he told me about these visits, I found that he could describe each village's location and features in great detail, down to the distance and direction of each village.

The intense visits and conversations undoubtedly brought him many new ideas, and some new systematic thinking took shape in his mind. In this conversation, Vitalik extensively discussed his thoughts on Ethereum ecosystem applications, pointing out that the technology has reached a certain level of maturity, and it is time to focus on applications. He shared several latest Web3 applications he learned about in Chiang Mai. Additionally, he talked about his observations on crypto institutions like Solana and Binance and Chinese elements such as Tencent AI Labs and "The Three-Body Problem." Finally, he shared insights into his life, habits, and hobbies.

To this end, Foresight News invited Vitalik to conduct an offline interview in a "village" in Chiang Mai called Mountain Sea Lodge, allowing him to share his observations and thoughts during this period. The following is the written content.

42 Days in Chiang Mai

Joe: Hello, everyone. I'm Joe Zhou from Foresight News, and I'm delighted to have Ethereum's founder Vitalik for this interview. Vitalik, could you please introduce yourself?

Vitalik: Hello, everyone. I'm Vitalik Buterin, a renowned Dogecoin holder.

Joe: That's a very iconic introduction. You spent quite a long time in Chiang Mai, over 30 days. What kind of people and events attracted you?

Vitalik: I usually move from one place to another frequently. I remember averaging 55 flights per year, not including layovers. However, in Chiang Mai, I didn't move for six weeks, feeling it was a great opportunity to both work and rest. Of course, I found myself engaged in numerous activities every day in Chiang Mai.

Last year in Montenegro, I conducted an experiment called Zuzalu, and the feedback indicated it was a successful experiment. However, we were unsure of its next steps. During the period between Token2049 in Singapore and Devcon in Bangkok (approximately 7 weeks), some people initiated pop-up events in Chiang Mai. Initially, there were only a few, but then more and more joined. It could be said that it eventually evolved into a Zuzalu 2.0 supported by the same fund (the Zuzalu Fund). I was the initiator and founder of Zuzalu 1.0, and watching the development of Zuzalu 2.0 made me feel like I was witnessing how my own child was growing step by step.

Here, there are indeed many interesting things and communities. There are seven or eight relatively large Pop-Ups, each with its unique characteristics. For example, (at the moment) in Mountain Sea Lodge, many interesting activities are taking place, ranging from technical to non-technical, and various meditation activities.

The Invisible Garden is 900 meters from here, focusing on ZK and Ethereum-related matters. 3 kilometers to the east is MegaZu, a project researching Ethereum L2 technology with an emphasis on developer culture, conducting an application development Bootcamp. Another kilometer east from MegaZu is Web3 Village, a Vietnamese community with some interesting talks and activities. Continuing eastward, we have Edge City, which is very large, possibly with 300 people now, offering different content every week. Last week, they had a stablecoin-related event, and this week, they have one about Dapps.

Every time you go to a pop-up, you'll find that people are different, things they do are different, and the topics they talk about are different, so it's especially interesting.

Joe: You participate in activities almost every day in Chiang Mai. During this process, what new changes have you seen in your understanding and awareness of Crypto?

Vitalik: In Mountain Sea Garden, I found that the Ethereum community discusses two questions. The first question is why they are interested in Ethereum, and the second question is what challenges Ethereum faces.

On the internet, many people have expressed some strange ideas, such as Ethereum's values are useless, and Crypto is a gambling market. But in the Ethereum community, some people, including many Chinese, participate in Ethereum because we have some values and life ideals that we particularly value. We want to create an open world, want to create a decentralized blockchain and platform, we will create sustainable applications, we will create applications that make society better. People in our community will say this.

But we haven't achieved it for a long time. Why? Because until this year, our technology was not good enough. In 2021, there was only L1, no L2. The transaction fee on Ethereum's L1 may be $1, may be $5, or even more. Last year we had many L2s, but these L2s were not secure enough, and their wallet user experience was poor.

This year, we can see some changes. First, both Optimistic and Arbitrum in L2 have reached Stage 1. According to a framework I had two or three years ago, if you are not Stage 1, you are just a multi-signature wallet, actually not securely connected to Ethereum. But Optimistic or Arbitrum have achieved it. First, security has improved, and second, transaction fees have been greatly reduced. In February this year, the average transaction fee on L2 was $0.4, and now sometimes it is $0.004.

There has been an interesting trend in the tech industry for over twenty years, where people proposed interesting ideas early on, but many years passed without anyone being able to achieve them. Suddenly, ten or twenty years later, when the technology becomes good enough, these things come true.

Since 2014, I have been interested in the topic of prediction markets, and in 2020, I participated in Augur (a prediction market platform founded in 2014). However, at that time, there were not many users, and my own user experience was poor. In early 2021, I wrote an article "Prediction Markets Tales from the Election," where I made $58,000, but I paid $1000 in transaction fees. Now, Polymarket is based on Polygon and is almost free.

In 2014, there were already prediction markets, and entrepreneurs had been trying to build prediction markets for a decade. However, it wasn't until 2024 that Polymarket suddenly became popular. Why were these applications able to become a reality? I think two key reasons are that transaction fees are lower and transaction confirmation is faster.

Blockchain is not a single technology; it may need various other technologies to mature before applications can flourish. If you are a developer and want to build a blockchain application, in the first scenario, users have to pay $5 for each transaction, in the second scenario, users pay $0.5 per transaction, and in the third scenario, $0.005. In the first scenario, the only application that could possibly succeed is a high-value, high-risk financial product.

Farcaster is another very interesting example. They use a hybrid on-chain and off-chain architecture. Their critical information, such as registered accounts, is on-chain, while the user-generated information is off-chain. They have a very interesting decentralized off-chain storage mechanism. Every time an account needs to be registered, or when you have important information, they need to create a transaction that incurs a transaction fee. If a transaction costs $5 or $15, then this application would be completely unfeasible. However, if the transaction fee is $0.001 or $0.05, then it is viable.

Therefore, our industry has reached a point where many idealistic blockchain practitioners like to talk about non-financial solutions, solving identity issues, decentralized governance, and so on. However, the only successful applications are high-risk financial ones. This is because if the transaction fee is $5, high-risk finance is the only thing you can do. If the transaction fee drops to $0.005, many things that were previously impossible become possible.

So, I believe many blockchain applications are experiencing a new trend where many previously impossible things are now becoming possible.

Joe: Besides Polymarket and Farcaster, which you frequently mention, what interesting applications did you see during your time in Chiang Mai?

Vitalik: I found that MegaZu is working on some particularly fun applications.

In 2018, I saw a very interesting application aimed at creating a crypto event platform. Sometimes an event may have 200 registered attendees, but both the organizers and registrants do not know whether ultimately there will be 100, 50, or 20 participants.

So, the pattern they want to follow is Trustful Commitment. If someone participates, the registrant has to send 0.01 or 0.02 Ether, and if they ultimately do not participate, they lose their Ether. If they participate, they receive a portion of the Ether provided by others who did not participate. This ensures that the majority of registrants will join the activity.

I think the idea of this application is particularly interesting as it can help us solve some everyday problems. This application was developed in 2018, but there have been no further updates since. I suspect this is due to the inadequate blockchain transaction fees and user experience in 2018. Now, MegaZu has many developers working on applications based on this idea, which I find intriguing.

“Many Web3 applications are now becoming feasible.”

Joe: How does the Ethereum Foundation view the current community sentiment that there is too much infrastructure and not enough applications?

Vitalik: I see some people criticizing our community, saying that Ethereum's philosophers are particularly fond of discussing technology and not interested in applications.

Why is that? Initially, we couldn't focus on applications because our technology was not yet complete. Now that our technology has reached a certain level, application development is possible. So now we need a community focused on application development. We need both technical and application-focused communities. This is also the advantage of the diversity in the Ethereum community.

I believe the best approach is not to tell those working on Layer 1 to build applications. The best thing they can do is focus on Layer 1 issues. What we need to do is give new people more opportunities and space in the community. The first point is to give them freedom, and the second point is to offer them more support.

Joe: Will there be more specific measures?

Vitalik: The first is support within the community. If some individuals are working on important applications, they should be able to share what they are working on within the community. That's the first step.

Second, many people excel at creating user-friendly products, but they are not as skilled in the technical aspects of blockchain, L1, L2, and wallet integrations. We also need organizations that are more connected to teams, such as community organizations and hackathons.

Another point is that the foundation recently wanted to expand a team, and the goal of expanding the team is to have closer relationships with wallets such as MetaMask, OKX, Rabbit, and so on. This is because wallets have a lot of direct interaction with users.

Joe: What are the top three products you most hope to see built on Ethereum?

Vitalik: I have mentioned Polymarket and Farcaster many times in the past year. It's not just that I like these two examples, but because they both represent a very promising category. Polymarket can be classified as a combination of finance and new media. Twenty years ago, we had traditional media, ten years ago we had social media, but now many people don't trust traditional media and social media.

Everyone is talking about wanting to create a better Web3 social media, but just adding a crypto payment feature to existing products is a failed approach. How did social media succeed? Twitter didn't aim to be the next Facebook when it first came out, and TikTok didn't aim to be the next Twitter. We need to invent a new category and track, instead of trying to do better in existing categories and tracks by making some adjustments.

I would put Polymarket in the media category. If I want to know what's happening in the world, I now have a habit of checking Polymarket. Or when the media says something happened, and I wonder if it's important, I'll check Polymarket. Or just go to Polymarket to see if anything important has happened recently. If you see a significant increase in the betting amount on an event on Polymarket, you'll be curious to know what happened.

Traditional, social, and Web3 media, three different ways of coexisting, is interesting. Polymarket has two ways to participate: the first way is if you have money, you participate in the market; the second way is if you don't have money, but you'll watch the market's outcome. I think this combination of market and non-market must have a lot of opportunities. I don't know what these opportunities are yet, but I believe there will be many opportunities like this, and that's the first part.

Image Source: Polymarket (2024 U.S. Election, $3.6 Billion Bet Worldwide)

For Farcaster, I think social products need to have some crypto elements. Nowadays, the biggest problem for crypto entrepreneurs is that they tend to fall into two extremes: one is to create something lucrative but lacks long-term sustainability and meaningfulness, and the other is to focus only on users without a viable revenue model.

The first issue is that entrepreneurs don't make money, and the second issue is that users who are not idealists are reluctant to participate. A successful Web3 application will merge these two aspects.

SocialFi also has a history beyond blockchain. For example, back in 2012, there was a project called Diaspora that aimed to create a decentralized Facebook, but they eventually failed. Now, projects like Bluesky and Threads are facing the same two problems. The first problem is their inability to monetize, leading to insufficient resources to make significant progress.

The second problem is if a user is not an idealist, they have little motivation to migrate from Twitter. Finding a way to combine these two aspects would be perfect, but nobody has achieved it fully yet. How to integrate idealism and profitability is a crucial matter.

Joe: Would you pay attention to applications in the Solana and TON ecosystems?

Vitalik: Sometimes I chat with people from Solana to learn about what they are interested in and the current hot topics. Indeed, some are turning DeFi into the internet or the infrastructure of the next generation.

There are also exchanges like Binance that have significant user bases in some developing countries. In 2021, we visited Argentina, where I found many people using crypto, but even though they are crypto users, they are not necessarily blockchain users.

Once during Christmas, I was walking outside and passed by a café. The owner immediately recognized me and showed me his Binance account. I asked him if I could buy his coffee with Ethereum, and he said yes. The payment process took about 5 minutes, and transaction confirmation times were particularly long, but this issue has now been resolved. The reason I am now concerned about this topic is that we hope some exchanges can accept on-chain Ethereum transactions just 12 seconds later.

Joe: Just now you mentioned that many people are Crypto users now, but not necessarily blockchain users. Could this be due to the fact that much of the on-chain activity is happening on the web rather than mobile?

Vitalik: There are now some wallets that are promoted, like Daimo on Base, which is a good example, as their goal is to create a decentralized wallet.

The "Crisis" of Ethereum

Joe: What do you think is the biggest crisis Ethereum is facing right now? And over the past two years, what do you think has hindered the development of Web3?

Vitalik: I'm wondering if 2022 and 2023 are the most dangerous times. I think we are in a better position now.

In 2022, there was an AI explosion, and many people started to see AI as the future opportunity. And Crypto was seen as something less useful, only a place for speculation. Many idealistic people who had a positive impact on the world left Crypto because, as I mentioned earlier, they were disappointed in Crypto due to issues like transaction fees and technology. I remember when I went to Silicon Valley in April 2022, I chatted with some well-known AI practitioners, and they all told me that Crypto was useless. This was before the FTX collapse in 2022, and the situation worsened after FTX.

Now Crypto has made significant technological advances and has seen more success in applications, so I think the current situation is better.

One risk I see now is that our community has become truly diverse. Some emphasize finance, some emphasize cyberpunk, and others focus on culture, art, philosophy, etc., and their ideas are all different. One unfortunate situation is that they are starting to disrespect each other. Some only focus on money-making applications, while others want to do meaningful things but lack financial resources. I hope these two aspects can come together.

Joe: Solana is becoming increasingly powerful, and many believe it has become Ethereum's most important competitor. How do you view this issue?

Vitalik: I think they are much more centralized than Ethereum.

First, running a Solana node is much more difficult than running an Ethereum node; second, Solana's PoS is more centralized; third, the community has more things that are directly supported by the Solana Foundation.

They focus a lot on applications and like to talk about Depin. The Depin they are doing involves collaboration with some major companies, selling hardware, and partnering with telecom companies to create a new internet. These applications all share a common feature: they have much less demand for decentralization compared to Ethereum. I think some of the market goals they are pursuing are really different from Ethereum.

If you want a blockchain with 100 TPS, Ethereum's L1 will never meet this requirement. You only have two choices: the first is to go to other high-performance blockchains, and the second is to use Ethereum L2 solutions, including Arbitrum, Optimistic Rollups, and MegaETH.

So, what does Ethereum offer that other faster chains cannot do? I assure everyone that Ethereum is a long-term decentralized, neutral, and very secure blockchain. You can look at some data comparing the decentralization of Ethereum's PoS pools to Bitcoin's mining pools and you will find that Ethereum is more decentralized than Bitcoin.

We have a successful experience and history in addressing some of our centralization issues. One example is the client diversity problem. Three years ago, the Ethereum network was predominantly using Geth and Prysm, but now no client exceeds fifty-two percent.

Another example is from two years ago when we had a crisis with Tornado Cash. Some people started censoring certain crypto transactions and everyone was worried that the Ethereum chain would lose its neutrality. A year later, you can see the percentage of blocks that include such transactions. Two years ago, it might have been over 80%, but now it's consistently around 20-50%. After a year or two, you can see the results of how we addressed these issues.

Ethereum L1 is not the best place for high-performance applications. If you want to build a game, L1 is also not the best place, so we need L2 solutions. That's how Ethereum's architecture is designed. The Ethereum L1 architecture is decentralized, neutral, secure, and should be the only one comparable to Bitcoin. L2 solutions can focus on transaction efficiency and speed, providing a good blockchain for mainstream users.

Joe: Does this mean that Ethereum's ultimate form should be imperceptible, hidden behind all L2s?

Vitalik: In a way, yes. The only exception is that for Ethereum to succeed as an asset, people need to know about it, so Ethereum cannot entirely become a background thing.

Ethereum, needs to be known to everyone. Ethereum will not be like Google Cloud, becoming something completely invisible. The advantage of Ethereum over Google Cloud is that it is normally invisible, but in the most crucial situations, it is visible, with this distinction.

So until a particularly necessary situation has not occurred, we still need to talk about the existence of Ethereum's L1, discuss the advantages and characteristics of Ethereum's L1.

Joe: Earlier you mentioned AI, how often do you use AI products in your daily life? Do you frequently use products like ChatGPT?

Vitalik: Yes, sometimes I use ChatGPT. I purposely bought a relatively powerful GPU for my computer, so I can also run some local models. Some of the graphics in my articles are actually drawn by me using local AI.

Joe: How do you feel the current integration of AI with Ethereum has brought forth new things?

Vitalik: I feel that AI and Crypto have had a quite significant connection in the past decade, which is AI's involvement in decentralized exchanges. This example is very interesting and represents a large and very promising category.

What is this category? Crypto can use smart contracts to define the rules of a game, ensuring that the game's execution is secure, and AI can participate in this game. What is this game? A decentralized exchange is the first example, and a prediction market is the second example. In the future, there may be many more examples.

Joe: There are voices from the outside world saying that from a technical mechanism perspective, Ethereum is becoming increasingly centralized. How do you view this issue?

Vitalik: I find it strange when they say that because I feel Ethereum is becoming more and more decentralized. The issue we are facing now is the consequences of decentralization. I can give some examples, such as L1 client development. About five years ago, we only had one client, which was Geth, and now we have Geth, Nethermind, Besu, and others.

Now you can visit a website called ClientDiversity.org. There, you can see what percentage of the Ethereum network is using different clients. You will find that Geth has 52%, with others having slightly less. However, no client now has over 66%.

Now, what would happen if Geth had an issue? Firstly, Ethereum's network wouldn't finalize because finalization requires agreement from 66% of nodes. So, there would be a fork, but this fork wouldn't finalize. At this point, client developers would investigate which client has the issue. When they discover that the Geth client has the problem but other clients don't, Geth will be updated.

A similar situation occurred in 2016 when Geth was used by 85% of the network. After 12 hours, everything was back to normal. Currently, this network wouldn't finalize. For applications with very high security requirements, they would immediately be aware of a potential issue and would need to wait to confirm. After 12 hours, once a new version of Geth is released, there would be no issue. Therefore, the decentralized development of clients is very effective.

You can also observe the companies behind the clients and how they are funded. In 2021, theoretically, the clients are from different companies, and their funding comes from the Ethereum Foundation. Therefore, it could be said that in 2021, the decentralization level is not as strong. Why did we do this? Because we want different client companies to exist, and we want to give them an opportunity to grow. Some client companies currently do not need funding from the foundation, and the recent sponsorships we provided were minimal.

Another aspect is related to the protocol. Five years ago, I was almost the sole protocol researcher. Now we have a research team of at least 20 people, some from the Ethereum Foundation, and some from other teams outside the foundation, such as those from Paradigm, who publish their own protocol ideas, among others.

Additionally, there are organizations within the Ethereum ecosystem. Five years ago, the largest entity in the Ethereum ecosystem was the Ethereum Foundation, followed by Consensus, with nothing else much. Now, we have the client companies just mentioned, independent organizations like ETH Global, various wallets such as Metamask, Rainbow, Trust Wallet, Rabbit, and more, whereas three years ago, there was only Metamask.

One major issue of concern this year is interoperability. With numerous L2 solutions and wallets, some interoperability issues have arisen. If we were centralized, we wouldn't have such problems.

Therefore, the primary issue we are currently striving to address is how to maintain a decentralized ecosystem while still being able to coordinate in essential areas where coordination is required and continuously improve critical standards.

Joe: Earlier you mentioned that decentralization also brought some problems. I have also noticed that people are discussing issues such as L2 fragmentation, where Ethereum does not seem to act as a cohesive whole. What is your take on the various ecosystems seemingly diluting Ethereum's resources?

Vitalik: I remember in August, there was a lot of discussion on different L2 issues, as well as Ethereum's activity, with a sense of competition. But I found that after everyone talked about these things, both L2 and wallets, as well as activities, were all very eager to address this issue.

Two days ago, we had an L2 and wallet interoperability event in Chiang Mai. At Devcon, there will be a bigger one, and they all agree that we need more standards, we need interoperability between L2s, and they are willing to drive this forward. I think some people outside, in order to criticize Ethereum, would say that L2s are fighting each other, but if you listen to what people in L2 actually say and think, you will find that they do not want to fight; they want to cooperate.

Life begins at 30 and ends at 30

Joe: Lastly, let's talk about some more personal topics. Confucius said life begins at 30, and you are now 30. Ten years ago, you wrote the Ethereum whitepaper, and today, 10 years later, do you feel you have achieved the dream you had back then? What do you plan to do in the next ten years?

Vitalik: You could say it's partially achieved, and I have also found that my understanding of what we need to do has changed a lot.

A big change is my mindset. Ten years ago, I focused on theory, finding new mechanisms in an economic and mathematical way. But this era is different now; most of the mechanisms we can invent have been invented. Now, what we do more of is not inventing entirely new mechanisms but optimizing what we already have. The optimization process cannot rely on theory alone; in some areas it can, such as in cryptography, zero-knowledge proofs, etc. But in many areas, the only way is to experiment. To experiment, see where it succeeds, where it fails, and continuously improve.

As a specific example, I had an idealistic idea 10 years ago, wanting to invent a governance model that could be mathematically proven to be optimal and always correct. In many cases, you can prove it mathematically, but there are different actors outside the mechanism, and you cannot create a governance mechanism that will definitely be stable.

In "The Three-Body Problem," there are some scientists who did a lot of experiments but eventually found that physics no longer existed, so they committed suicide. And I feel economics no longer exists. If we want to do more, our only way is to experiment. If we want to optimize the mechanisms of our public goods, the only thing we can do is experiment again, change the mechanism, experiment again, and change our mechanism once more. Maybe now and in the next ten years, I will do more of this kind of thing.

Joe: What are your non-Crypto hobbies?

Vitalik: Walking, running, reading various books or things on the internet, going to different places to learn different languages.

Joe: What types of books do you enjoy?

Vitalik: Most of them are non-fiction books, such as economics, history, or social topics. You can see online that some people write really long articles, which are essentially like writing a book.

Joe: Where do you generally get your energy from, and how do you usually adjust yourself in the morning to get into the best state?

Vitalik: Perhaps the most interesting part of my life is that I have two kinds of work. The first kind of work is more introverted, like coding, writing articles, or discussing topics with developers. The second kind of work is extroverted, which involves attending events.

I've found an interesting thing between these two kinds of work. One serves as a rest for the other. When you've done too much of one and need a break, you can switch to the other.

Joe: Who are your favorite authors, musicians, and philosophers?

Vitalik: This question is really hard to answer because it's really hard to say one is better than another.

Joe: If you weren't in Crypto, what would you be doing?

Vitalik: Before getting into Crypto, I was working on web education, so I think that's an important topic.

My goal for the past two years has been to combine Crypto with other important technical directions. If it weren't for Crypto, I might also work on Dapp-related things, including some in healthcare and DCI (Data Center Interconnect). And if it's something Crypto-related, I would work on Community notes.

Joe: Will you retire? Or disappear like Satoshi Nakamoto?

Vitalik: If I don't do the work I'm doing now, I feel like I would be lonely.

Joe: What aspects of Chinese culture do you like the most?

Vitalik: I have always felt that the Chinese community has been very friendly. They have various interesting ideas, they also care about building a great community, caring about the values on Ethereum and blockchain. There are also some simpler points, like Chinese food is delicious.

Joe: What Chinese dishes do you like?

Vitalik: Vegetables, steamed fish.

Joe: Alright, this conversation is coming to an end. Thank you, Vitalik, for accepting the interview from Foresight News. Also, thanks to some Web3 practitioners from the Chinese-speaking community who paid attention to this interview and provided some questions, including Yisi, Co-founder of Mask Network; Jiang, Co-founder of Social Layer; Forest, Co-founder of Foresight Ventures; Yuanjie, Co-founder of Conflux; Sandy, Co-founder of Scroll; KOL Jason, and others. Their questions also partly represent the voice of the Chinese-speaking community. Of course, a big thank you to Audrey from Shanhaiwu for her support, and thanks to the photographer, Shaka. Thank you, everyone.

Vitalik: Okay, thank you.

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